My last post got me thinking about a poll I asked on Facebook a little while ago… It’s pretty simple (only one question) and while there were a decent number of responses, I’d love to get even more. Here’s the question:
REALTORS: What is your largest source of business?
Tagged: consumers RSS
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Dustin
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Dustin
Maybe I can offer a totally different perspective
Hurricane Fannie Freddie got me thinking about an email that I sent out to a Seattle real estate agent not too long ago. The agent emailed me to say that she thought Rain City Guide’s negativity was only making the Seattle real estate market worse and that we should provide a more positive outlook.
This was not the first email I’ve received like this (far from it), and so I thought I’d share my response with 4realz readers since it may help you uncover a bit of what has worked on RCG over the past 3 1/2 years (note: I modified the email substantially to protect the innocent):
Dear Seattle real estate agent,
Maybe I can offer a totally different perspective.
As you seem to understand by your email, Rain City Guide is an awesome marketing tool that generates lots of interest among seattle real estate consumers and substantial business for many of the active participants. However, I think the reason we are successful often gets lost on industry insiders.
There’s no doubt that the group of contributors to RCG often takes a slightly negative twist (some might argue “realistic”) on the market and that in general, the most active participants are extremely pro-consumers at the expense of the industry. For industry-insiders like yourself, this can often seem completely inappropriate (as you mentioned!), but for those of us generating business by tapping into an honest dialog with consumers about the market, it can often seem odd that anyone would take any other position.
Truth is, I can’t think of one successful real estate blogger (i.e. one who is generating substantial business from blogging) who views their job to look out for the industry.
While it might be in the best interest of the industry for RCG to put a positive spin on today’s market, from my perspective, it’s in the best interest of each contributor to take a position that a vast majority of consumers can relate to. For consumers, the market sucks… and that includes most of the people who are considering buying and/or selling right now. And my experience has been that if you tell an internet consumer anything they don’t want to hear, they’ll simply do another google search and find an agent, website or blog that matches with their reality.
My recommendation? As you contribute comments (and maybe some day posts) to RCG, focus on consumers and (pretty much) ignore the other contributors. And if you do decide to give industry-spin, then be prepared that RCG readers love to point out self-serving agents and RCG contributors are often more than happy to distance themselves from industry insiders because they’re looking to earn clients, not industry friends.
Essentially, don’t be the “example” that other contributors can focus on to differentiate themselves. Instead, focus on relating directly to consumers with the most authentic dialog you can muster. There’s plenty of business to be generated by all if you fight for the consumer’s heart and mind.
And just to be clear, this perspective has everything to do with the expectations of internet consumer and very little to do with RCG. This honest dialog between agents and consumers goes on, and will continue to go on, with or without RCG.
I hope this helps! Best,
-Dustin
I’d be fascinated to hear your thoughts on my email. Does this philosophy work outside of Seattle? Or am I just totally missing the boat on what makes RCG tick?
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Joseph Ferrara.sellsius
It’s hard to argue with success, Dustin.
Unlike some other group blogs, the RCG contributors all know and work the Seattle market. It seems logical to me that it will therefore attract greater local market interest (and business for the contributors who write for those consumers). Who wants to hear from an agent doing business in NY. That may be OK for a group industry blog but IMO RCG is a great model for a group blog that is likely to get consumer business IF that’s who you’re talking to.
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Jillayne Schlicke
Hi Dustin,
If Realtors believe the media or a blog has the power to effect consumer behavior, Realtors are spending way too much time listening to their brokers and not enough time listening to consumers.
Being an agent is like being middle management. On the one hand, you have upper management screaming at you to cut costs and produce more revenue. On the other side you have employees screaming about cost cuts and the challenges of making sales.
Consumers are starving for data interpretation. They’re being blasted by the media about the mortgage crisis, foreclosures, bank failures and recesssion, and they’re also being told now is a great time to buy?
Realtors have a brilliant opportunity to become that respected, educated pro who can help buyers and selllers make sense out of all this data. Seek out educators who can help you do this. We are out here ready to help you.
I meet Realtors every day who come into the classroom looking for someone to help them be that person. It’s a shame their brokers are not doing this and instead, teaching their agents to blame the media and bloggers.
Brokers who DO decide to help educate their agents will survive and thrive.
Educate being defined as how to make sense out of what’s happening and how to help consumers make good decisions and NOT just teaching them more sales scripts to memorize.
I can tell your readers (and brokers) from experience that consumers are out there, they like what they’re reading on RCG, they interact with me via email, & over the phone, I’ve met with many face-to-face and many have hired me.
The business is out there.
I’m glad you received that email because if it would have come to me, I’d tell them to stop whining, get off the butts and go out there and start LISTENING to consumers (not talking.)
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Jillayne Schlicke
Hi Joe,
Though RCG contributors are local and know the local market, it is read by consumers nationwide. I have regular readers from as far away as Florida, WA DC, and Virginia.
People in foreclosure from all over the U.S. have found us and asked heartbreaking questions about their own homes.
The national media has been contacting me for over a year now for interviews based on what they’ve found on RCG and tomorrow I’m meeting with a TV crew from Canada.
We’re doing something good: We’re telling consumers the truth about what’s going on.
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Mistyeyed
Hi Dustin:
I’m not sure if it works in other markets or not, but it sounds like really good advice. I think that it’s a wonderful idea.
Thanks for sharing.
Misty
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Rob Hahn
Completely agreed with your letter, Dustin.
One small quibble is here:
While it might be in the best interest of the industry for RCG to put a positive spin on today’s market, from my perspective, it’s in the best interest of each contributor to take a position that a vast majority of consumers can relate to. For consumers, the market sucks… and that includes most of the people who are considering buying and/or selling right now. And my experience has been that if you tell an internet consumer anything they don’t want to hear, they’ll simply do another google search and find an agent, website or blog that matches with their reality.
Telling consumers what they want to hear is also a kind of spin. I know you don’t mean it that way — I know what you’re saying is to be honest and authentic. But I wanted to make this clear.
Consumers can sniff out inauthenticity either way — whether it’s pro-industry spin or pro-consumer spin. Just be authentic, be honest, and give your professional opinion backed up with research, data, and experience and consumers will be able to distinguish trustworthy folks from the Slick Willie salesmen.
-rsh
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ARDELL
What many agents don’t understand is that it is perfectly fine to say to a buyer client that it is a terrible time to buy. That is beyond fathomable to many agents.
I have told many a client “you are paying $20,000 too much for this house”. I’ve told a buyer of one of my own homes he was paying $100,000 too much for it. His response: “will you sell it to me for less then?” My response: “No.” He bought it.
Too many agents don’t understand that honesty is always OK.
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Jillayne Schlicke
Now here’s a good idea for a blog article: What does a Realtor member do when his or her duties under the Realtor code (Honesty) conflict with his or her duties to earn a living?
Honesty is always okay….except when you have to chose between honesty and feeding your family?
Are there many different ways to be honest and still fulfill all your duties?
What about all the possible consequences of being honest 100% of the time?
Your thoughts?
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Rhonda Porter
I wouldn’t say that all of us share the same views on all topics. We’re a pretty diverse group from different backgrounds and opinions.
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ARDELL
Jillayne,
In the mid 90s the Realtor Organization removed the duty to be “fair” to all parties (which was a previous duty), but not the duty to be honest.
I think that is why agents first convince themselves that things are better than they are, so that when they say things are better…they are being honest.
It is why many companies arm their agents with proofs of positive points, so that they can all be honest.
No one lies to their clients, Jillayne. But some people do lie to themselves.
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Jillayne Schlicke
I talk with lots and lots of agents in the classroom. Hundreds each year.
They are not convinced that things are going well. Yes, they’re armed with talking points but the agents as well as the home buyers and sellers are not convinced.
Most people (not all) have a very difficult time lying to themselves. I do not believe that the majority of agents are buying the talking points.
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ARDELL
“…but the agents as well as the home buyers and sellers are not convinced.”
It is always a good time to… You say buyers and sellers are not convinced. Buyers AND sellers never have to be convinced.
When it is not a good time to buy, then it is a good time to sell. When it is not a good time to sell…then it is a good time to buy.
When it is a good time to sell, I work very hard at getting listings. When it is a good time to buy, I work very hard at getting buyer clients.
It’s very easy to be honest in this business, as long as you are never saying it is the best time to buy and the best time to sell at the same time. That is never the case in most anything that has a fluctuating market value.
I wrote a post once about a “two faced agent” who had a meeting in the morning and said it was a great time to sell to a seller (because prices are going to go down maybe) and in the afternoon said the reverse to a buyer.
I have even seen agents write two blog articles back to back like this. One to sellers and the next post to buyers.
I challanged a group of agents to write two posts that day. One to sellers and one to buyers. As a blogger, you talk to each, both together and separately, in writing and in the public view. That is why bloggers often become better agents as a result of blogging.
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Jay Thompson
I get emails and comments from agents frequently “calling me out” — usually when I say something like “now may not be a good time to sell” (See You Can’t Handle the Truth! for one example).
“What about all the possible consequences of being honest 100% of the time?”
Consequences of being honest? Other than loyal clients, I can’t think of any.
I can think of TONS of consequences of being dishonest, or even sugar-coating the truth.
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Jillayne Schlicke
Hi Jay, Being 100% honest, 100% of the time is not easy. What if your sweetie asked you, “honey, does this outfit make my butt look fat?”
Answering that question with 100% honesty could have some dire consequences.
That’s why we ask our very, very best friend for that answer. He/she will always tell us the truth: It’s not the outfit, it’s your butt; it’s fat.
In business agents serve several masters. Your broker who needs you to be productive, your client who needs that 100% honesty, and your family who needs you to make a sale.
Being 100% forthright and upfront with clients is not necessarily a black and white issue when it comes to the question, “Is now a good time to buy?” “Is now a good time to sell?”
It might be in the client’s best interest to wait, for good, logical reasons. Likewise, it might be in the client’s best interest to act now, for good logical reasons. This means agents will have to re-learn the reasons for buying and selling in this market.
If they haven’t re-learned all those reasons, just parroting a list of talking points is not going to cut it in today’s challenging market. Buyers and sellers are craving analysis, and they’re seeking out someone to listen to their concerns.
Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many agents never had the opportunity to learn those good reasons during the bubble run up.
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Dustin
I love all the feedback from today! Thanks everyone… It’s a fascinating dialog.
Rob Hahn: It’s an interesting point of view. My take is that a blog is just another version of marketing and any marketing involves a bit of spin. Of course, if it’s an authentic conversation, then it’s a hell of a lot easier to market, but I’m not against advising agents to pander if it can help differentiate themselves and lead to positive results.
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Tim Kane
I think if everyone dug their heels in and said I’m going to do business with only those that I agree with, not a whole lot of business would take place.
Lynlee and I have probably the most unique position of all RCG contributers. We are in a position of discussion that could easily alienate both those that pay us, the consumers who are our clients (the consumers we try to reach) and those who are largely responsible for placing business with us, agents and loan officers.
But the one thing Lynlee and I will never compromise regardless of outcome: our integrity and character.
On the other hand, many times bloggers and contributors think of things that I neglect to think through and that’s a good thing. Sometimes I may disagree with a blogger or contributor but then they post a sweet video with some great licks and then it’s all good!
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Jay Thompson
Jillayne – the “do these pants make my ass look fat” question really should be off-limits. Always & forever
My wife however, would expect nothing but an honest answer to that question. (and I’m lucky, my wife IS my very very best friend)Fortunately, I don’t have to serve a broker as I am my broker (and one reason I became my own broker was for that very reason — not to have to abide by my old brokers arcane ways).
I’ve “lost” many a listing by telling people, “you shouldn’t sell right now” and I’ve “lost” many dollars by not “upselling” buyers. And I’ll keep right on doing that. What I lose today, I think I’ll regain tomorrow. Or next year. Or five years from now. And that’s OK, as I suspect I’ll need commission checks in five years.
And if I have to compromise the truth to feed my family, I’ll find another line of work.
It’s *never* a good time to buy/sell for everyone. There are *always* “particulars” that must be considered.
No, it’s not easy being 100% honest 100% of the time. But it’s actually easier than feeding people a line of BS. As Mark Twain said, “If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything”
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Jillayne Schlicke
Hi Jay,
Excellent. You and I both realize that not everyone has the ability or willingness to quit and work for ourselves.
Think about agents who entered the buz during the last 10 years who now need to learn a new set of skills.
Who gets to say what “the truth” is?
Brokers? Agents? Media? Bloggers? Economists? Government? Me, you, Dustin, Ardell? Is it subjective or objective?
Both?
I think it’s easy to fool oneself and justify a truth. It’s harder to be who Jay is…every day, 100% of the time.
Ardell said it better up above:
“I think that is why agents first convince themselves that things are better than they are, so that when they say things are better…they are being honest.
It is why many companies arm their agents with proofs of positive points, so that they can all be honest.”
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James Bridges
Dustin, glad you share the e-mail. It always amazes me how people want a “spin” to help them. I truly see ourselves in a similar role to attorneys. We are here to advise and present our perceptions with recommendations and then we allow our clients to make a decision.
Sometimes that decision is to purchase and sometimes that decision is to hold off on a purchase. Lawyers have the same battles with their clients. They often recommend avoiding court (even though they might make more money going to court) because it would not be in the best interest of their client.
We have to take our role seriously and realize that we don’t have to be overly positive or negative, but we need to present the best possible information for our clients and empower them to make a decision.
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Andrew
track backs are not showing on your new site. boooo
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Susie Blackmon
Honesty is the key, as are numbers. Thanks for sharing the email and the great conversations that are there for me to read. I lose my balance there’s so much ’spin’ going on here but the facts are the facts, and I post them.
Dustin
4realz Roundtable: Effect of FDIC/Treasury Actions on Home Buyers and Real Estate Industry
[NOTE: we had a wonderful show and you can listen to the entire episode at the bottom of this post!]
This week were going to cover the obviously hot topic of the effect of the actions taken by the government in bailing out and/or helping secure IndyMac, Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae will affect the real estate industry.
This week’s guest is Lawrence Yun and as the chief economist for the National Association of REALTORS, Lawrence is sure to bring an incredibly interesting perspective. He’s constantly traveling around the country talking with people about their local markets… and whenever he’s stopped by real estate technology circles, like trips to Portland and Virginia, he’s impressed the locals tremendously.
As always, you can get information on how to (1) listen to the call live, (2) take part in the live chat and potentially take part in the conversation by following the (relatively simple) information on the 4realz Roundtable TalkShoe page. My guess is that this will be one of the more popular shows yet, so I’ll likely only be taking live callers based on folks who ask interesting questions in the chat room!
Also, in order to better accommodate Lawrence’s schedule, I’m moving the call to one hour later than usual. The show will be on Thursday, July 17, at 5pm PST (8PM EST). I definitely hope you can join us for a conversation on this timely topic!
UPDATE #1:
What an great show. Thanks so much to everyone who took part!
Jonathan Miller, Jillayne Schlicke and Rhonda Porter really helped provide an excellent base for a roundtable discussion with Lawrence. In our one hour conversation we covered so much ground… and I only wish I had the bandwidth to transcribe the whole thing (or even take better notes during the conversation!).
Nonetheless, we covered looked at how the real estate market would be affected by issues such as banks bailouts, freddie/fannie mac troubles, isues with jumbo loans, REOs, consumer confidence, government actions, sustainable housing, inflation, and much more! If you’re interested in getting an in-depth look at the real estate market and where things are headed, then you can listen to the entire show right here:
[podcast]http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-20339/TS-128183.mp3[/podcast]
UPDATE #2:
There are great conversations going on about this topic on both Rain City Guide and ActiveRain. Also thanks to Jim Duncan, Ardell DellaLoggia, Jonathan Miller, Rhonda Porter and Tom Royce for helping to spread the word!
joan, 
Brad Nix
Nice job landing Yun. Can’t wait to hear this roundtable.
Dustin
No doubt Brad… This should be a great conversation!
Michael Tarabotto
Dustin, I’m counting the minutes. This should be very interesting.
ARDELL
I’m setting my cell phone alarm to 4:45 to make sure I don’t miss it!
Andy Kaufman
Great pull Dustin! Looking forward to tuning in.
Julie Emery
Interesting roundtable and chat room! Kudos to you for landing the interview! Nicely done!
Dustin
Thanks so much Julie! So glad you enjoyed it!
Jonathan Miller
Fun! What a terrific resource. See if you can get Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson in a future show.
joan
This was a great interview. I actually ended up liking Yun as he was frank and forthright — so unlike his predecessor at NAR.
Dustin
Localism2.0 Launches
I got an early tour of the next version of Localism and I like much of what I saw… It’s a clean design that will give real estate agents plenty of opportunities to promote themselves (including by buying and/or creating new local communities). My guess is that this release will be very popular within the ActiveRain community.
Here’s my main criticism: When I put my consumer hat on, the purpose of the site doesn’t jump out at me at first glance. As a new user going to Twitter, I know what I’m suppose to do (i.e. answer the question: “what am I doing?”). As a new user going to Facebook, I know that I’m there to connect with friends and family. With localism, I’m asked to “go hyper local”… but I’m honetly not sure what that means… and it’s not particularly compelling when I get there since, as a consumer, there’s not a lot of ways for me to interact on the site… yet.
So here’s the good news. The ActiveRain team mentioned that (1) they did their SEO homework and they’re convinced these sites will rank really well (only time will tell) and (2) they’re working hard to add more consumer interaction points (text, photo and video upload for non-ActiveRain members). Assuming that at least some of the communities starts to get some serious traffic and the agents involved start to get some leads from the site, then I think they’ll have another winner on their hands.
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Jonathan Washburn
Dustin, Thanks for the review!
You make a very compelling point about giving the consumer clear direction about what they should be doing on the site. We will make sure to address this blocking issue before we open registration up to consumers.
As you alluded to above, it’s all about iterating the site forward.
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-Rob
Hey Dustin,
Nice review mate. But uh… aren’t you kinda skipping over what probably is the biggest flaw of Localism from a consumer standpoint?
Namely that all of the posters are real estate agents.
As a consumer, my early warning radar goes up immediately when I notice that. And you can’t help but notice that.
Yeah, as industristas, you and I might know that most real estate agents are honest, knowledgeable people, but as a consumer… do you really think people are going to trust a TV review site with reviews written only by TV salespeople?
Maybe once the popular image of the real estate agents has been changed, but in the current environment, color me skeptical.
The strategy needed to have been, from the start, consumer-centered, consumer-focused, and then use agents sparingly as “experts” — kinda like raisins in raisin-bread.
My $.02 anyhow.
-rsh
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Dustin
Rob: I’d agree that the consumer (or lack of consumer) interaction is clearly the weak point. However, from the point of view of meeting the needs of their core (i.e. agents), they really only need to provide a website that is going to attract consumer eyeballs… not necessarily consumer content. Looking at the site, it doesn’t scream “realtor” to me in the same way that AR does… so I’d give them the temporary benefit of the doubt to see if they got enough of their SEO, design and content right to get consumers to show up.
However, it’s also quite possible that I’m a bit biased in that RCG is run by agents, for agents, and yet is still a valuable community resource that drives considerable leads, so I see a lot of parallels.
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Joe Zekas
Great SEO will kill Localism quickly, as great marketing always kills bad products.
Consumers will go there, see that it’s a hill of Realtor-generated garbage and never return.
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Eric- New Orleans Condos and Lofts
We will have to see how it works. I have my own blog and site so would have to wonder if it would do much for me. I was an early member and moderator and am glad I got my start there. I know it works from people finding the blogs rather than localism home page. Most of my blogs are local. I think its got a great future and wondered why it took so long for the owners to figure that real estate is indeal local for the consumer.
Lets hope it does not compete with me.
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Jim Reppond
Not impressed. All the blog and website links go back to their own internal site. So you get no SEO juice for your own website. In fact, you become your own competition.
All the good cities (in Seattle area) are tied up with just a few people. I doubt if this will go very far. From what I’ve heard, Trulia intends to take them down at all cost. Should be easy for them.
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Dave
to educate some of you, localism is only in beta at the moment and still competing with realtown’s entire site. Don’t forget that it’s PARTOF Active Rain, not meant to be used as a standalone site. Last but most important; part of Active Rain’s idea is to allow realtors to provide content to their niche (community) but once localism comes out of beta, then the site will be open to everybody. So please don’t spread around garbage that the site is only intended to be used for realtors, that’s simply not true. Here’s a direct quote:
“It’s where neighbors and local merchants share what’s happening in their community.”
To the Trulia fanatic boasting that it will be SOOOO easy to bring down localism. First of all trulia can’t compete with localism in terms of content as it’s primarily a hub to find properties. If anyone will do it it will be Zillow who is just now starting to integrate similar features BUT neither of those sites have content that is reviewed for authenticity and i don’t think i need to remind anyone here that Zillow’s homeprice predictions are completely wrong and tha’ts putting it nicely.
Dustin
Been crazy for a few days getting ready for…
…in Realty Quest.
Here are some of the things I wanted to talk about this week, but haven’t had the chance:
- 4RealzEd is coming to Pasadena on May 30! The buzz from the first two events has been wonderful and I’m already seeing people sign up without any real marketing on our part! I love it!
- Move, Inc lost $4.6M in Q1 and not releasing “transformational” product. About the only positive news is that they are “announcing” a beta site that has been live (with a link from the homepage) since December. I feel bad for my previous colleague in marketing who has to spin this stuff.
- Keller Williams gets Zillow fever. Consider the great relationship between Top Producer (owned by Move) and KW, this must have been particularly painful for Errol Samuelson (runs both Top Producer and Realtor.com)
- Trulia teams up with the Silicon Valley Ass of REALTORS. The traditional walls are slowly crumbling.
- Seattle times reporter/blogger wonders covers conference with Move, Zillow and Google and wonders who will create the real estate destination portal of the future…
- Todd announces RE BlogWord… A special real estate track for the popular BlogWorld conference in Vegas. My guess is that there will be a bunch of big names from the world of real estate social media so this should be a lot of fun.
- Had a great, GREAT, meetup yesterday (dubbed: Doctor’s Note Gathering) with real estate and tech folks from the valley. Linda and Ted had nice write ups!
- Getting excited about a panel this year at Inman led by Jeff Turner called: Growing Pains: Take Your Blog to the Next Level (more announcments around RE Connect are sure to come!)
- Krunching.com launched earlier this week. I like everything about the site (from the perspective of a first public launch), except the business model. I think they will either need to be a tech provider (i.e. selling tech to consumers/professionals) OR a brokerage (commissions!), but not both. Otherwise, the site is great and I look forward to seeing more!
- Niki let me know that he launched Homethinking Mortgage earlier this week. I feel bad that I haven’t had more of a chance to check out the site, but ANYTHING Niki does is worth checking out. Some of the things, like the heat maps of average loan amount, are interesting, but I just haven’t taken the time to figure out how they will be useful!
- BeatYouThere launches (yet) another national real estate search site. I kinda feel bad for anyone trying to start up in this space at this point, even if they are well funded. Incremental improvement in the search just aren’t going to be enough at this point.
- And speaking of things that will be forgotten about in a few months… I like Louis a lot and he’s definitely doing a great job reaching out to the online real estate community, but…
- CyberHomes redesigns the site. I can’t help but wonder when will they start seriously marketing to consumers?
Dustin
Redfin releases a genuinely interesting update!
According to their press release, they are now commingling MLS, FSBO and Foreclosure listings on one map… and this has me scratching my head!
Are they allowed to do this? Isn’t this type of commingling of listings against MLS rules?
Notice the purple and pink icons… Those are REO (foreclosures) and FSBOs, respectively (green icons are MLS listings).
I have four ideas about how they are able to get away with this:
- They found a loophole in MLS agreements that let’s them commingle listings (but I would find this hard to believe).
- They got buy-off from all their local MLS organizations (but I would find this hard to believe)
- They have reason to believe they can win this battle in the courts… (maybe a DOJ brief in support of this or something similar?)
- They just don’t care about the rules and believe that consumer support for this feature will be so great that they’ll risk MLS fines.
None of these scenarios seem likely to me. What am I missing?
With that said, I REALLY like how they are approaching the foreclosure data. I’ve received a few press releases recently from real estate search sites that “announce” they are now publishing foreclosures on their site. However, inevitably, when I tested out the feature, the sites were just regurgitating RealtyTrac data that required consumers to pay a fee to get the actual address of the property. Redfin is providing the address.
Also interesting, someone from Redfin let me know that they are going to phase in a flat-fee buying option in order to accommodate these new listings types.
I want to send my congrats out to the Redfin team for pushing the boundaries yet again. Love ‘em or hate ‘em, they’re working pretty darn hard to deliver features and tools that they think will do a better job serving their customers.
UPDATE:
There’s some debate in the comments about whether there are local MLS rules against commingling of data, with some people claiming it’s just a misunderstanding that the data can’t be commingled. However, someone (who wished to remain anonymous) send me the following email which demonstrates that for at least one MLS where Redfin is commingling data, the rules are pretty clear:
Check it out: http://www.imrmls.com/centsite/idx_policy.htm
“4.13. Listings obtained through IDX must be displayed separately from listings obtained from other sources, not including information provided by other MLSs.”
What that says to ME (having experience with MLS rules) is that MRMLS doesn’t allow FSBO properties side-by-side with MLS listings.
Richard Dale-Mesaros
Congrats to RedFin for pushing the envelope! I guess their challenge will be to make this available nationwide as fast as possible. We’re looking for this kind of service to add to our member offerings, but even with RealtyTrac, their coverage is spotty in certain areas (eg: New Hampshire).
The next big goal for RedFin will undoubtedly be free access to MLS comparables for the general public. The NAR is clinging onto this data by their fingernails…. I wonder how soon they’ll loose their grip on this, too?!
Yours with boundless enthusiasm,
Richard
Chief Deal Weaver
http://www.BlackWidowNetwork.com
Jan
Actually windermere.com has been “commingling” listings for years. Go look for listings in Long Beach, WA, to see both NWMLS and RMLS.
Ellie at Redfin
Glad you like the release, Dustin! As to your question about co-mingling listings, we researched that one pretty hard. We found that what the rules actually require is that we clearly mark the source of a listing, such as with different color icons for non-MLS listings and clear messaging on the listing itself. We’ve done that, because we don’t want to misrepresent a listing as an MLS listing if it isn’t.
Also, if a listing is both a for-sale-by-owner home and is in the MLS (perhaps it’s an old FSBO listing, or the seller is trying both approaches), we show the MLS listing first by default.
And finally, thanks for noticing that you get the address with foreclosures. We looked at a few ways of doing this and really didn’t like the idea of teasing searchers with a foreclosure, only to send them off to a fee-based site to get the address.
Jon
What we’ve found is most MLSs specifically note “This MLS’ Listings may ONLY be commingled with other MLS’ listings.”
However after reviewing NWMLS rules, I don’t see anything of that sort. Seems (for now) redfin is in the clear. UNLESS other rules implicitly apply to data in a Member’s (Broker) site in general (ie. Framing rules).
Anthony Longo
We launched this on our site back in January. Not quite as detailed however we did a deal with Foreclosure.com and Forsalebyowner.com and have those listings fed to our site daily.
We were unsure of the commingling issue so we dont pull onto the same page/map…rather you have to perform separate searches.
Check it out at http://Boston.CondoDomain.com click on search and you can see you can search for: New Developments, Exisiting Buildings, Full MLS, Foreclosure, FSBO and even Auction.
For Sale by Owner Center
We caught wind that our FSBO listings were appearing on Redfin searches via the Redfin press release and with further research found one of our Long Beach CA listings included ( http://www.redfin.com/CA/LONG-BEACH/307-LOMA-AVE-90814/home/7602890 )
I personally think it’s great for the consumer but part of the reasoning to move forward is for the PR attention they may get from a possible MLS that file complaints which would make Redfin appear even more pro-consumer.
Jessie B
This is from the Redfin press release…
“Consumers’ first question of any real estate site is whether it shows all the homes for sale,” said Redfin Chief Technology Officer Michael Young.
I 100% agree with the above statement and it’s exactly what is driving the development of our beta site.
Although other sites have claimed to do this… I think it will be very interesting to watch how the re.net will react to this.
Andrew
there is no rules against this whatsoever. the only site that cannot mix fsbos is realtor.com. they have an agreement with NAR that does not allow this. Google tride to strike a deal with NAR but since they were not allowed to mix listings Google said forget it.
Joseph Bridges
I think providing customers with the latest data is extremely important and real estate professionals and MLS organizations should take note and make sure that they give the customers what they want. MLS’s that give the consumers all the data first will provide more value to their real estate agents who pay them dues. After all it is in the best interest of the consumer and the agent that they get to see ALL properties that meet the buyers criteria. While the rest of the redfin model may be up for debate their committment to data to the consumer is great.
property bulgaria
What we’ve found is most MLSs specifically note “This MLS’ Listings may ONLY be commingled with other MLS’ listings.”
However after reviewing NWMLS rules, I don’t see anything of that sort. Seems (for now) redfin is in the clear. UNLESS other rules implicitly apply to data in a Member’s (Broker) site in general (ie. Framing rules).
Dustin
The International Listings blogging team…
…put together another great list: 101 Tips & Resources for the Upside-Down Homeowner.
Dustin
The 1st 4RealzEd event was yesterday and…
I think I’ve recovered enough now to actually post about it!
Despite our best efforts to be prepared, the day started off a bit rough with a nearby mudslide taking out power in our building in the morning (meaning no hot coffee and no projector) and a 9-car pileup on a nearby freeway slowed me down tremendously. AHHH
So, to say it started rough would be an understatement… But once it started, things seem to get on a roll quickly.
I started with an overview of consumers expectations in a web2.0 world to set expectations for the day… Jim followed up with presentation on optimal features and design for a real estate website. Then it turned back to me for a presentation on social networking… lunch… then another presentation by me on creating value through blogging about communities. And we returned for the day’s finally with Jim giving a engaging presentation on measuring and tracking marketing results to ensure a positive ROI.
All around, it was a wonderful day! And, maybe they were just being nice, but the attendees who talked with me said only good things about the education.
Because I promised attendees I would give them a list of all the sites I mentioned in my presentations (so that they wouldn’t have to ask me to spell out each URL), here is the list for everyone’s benefit.
Consumer Expectations in a Web2.0 World:
- Expedia, Travelocity, Kayak, Trulia, Rain City Guide, RealCentralVA, Amazon, Netflix, del.icio.us, Firefox, Zillow API, MySpace, LinkedIn, Altos Research, Property Shark, Market Snapshot, Homethinking, Redfin, Realtor.com, Zillow, Google PageRank
Engaging in Social Networking to Earn Clients
- MySpace, Facebook, LinkedIn, Inman News Community, Zillow Discussions, Trulia Voices, ActiveRain, Google Reader (feed reader), AnnaLuther.com (RSS feed of listings), Mobile Reader
Using Blogs to Build Communities
- WordPress.com, Top Producer Blogs, Yahoo Mail, moving to seattle post, Real Estate Tomato, RealCentralVA, 4realz.net, Notorious Rob, Grow-a-Brain, Northern Virginia RE Guide, Altos Research blog, NELA Live, REagent in CT, St Paul Minnesota, FOREM, Blog Calabasas
I wasn’t tracking the sites that Jim mentioned, but there were not nearly as many of them in his presentations…
And thanks again to all the bloggers who have helped spread the word about the event, the sponsors who helped us keep the price low and all the attendees who made the day possible!
I received some incredible feedback from all three groups, which is going to lead me to make some changes to the upcoming events (I’ll announce those early next week!). Great stuff all around. Thanks again to everyone!
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Jay Thompson
Congrats Dustin! Mudslides and pile-ups aside, I’m sure it was well worth it for the attendees. Sounds like a great program.
But next time, you should slip some Phoenix real estate blog in there somewhere…
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Dustin
So very true!
At one point I list “reasons blogs work”, and I use different examples from RCG posts… During the presentation I came to the conclusion that I had too many RCG screenshots, so my plan is to redo that section to bring in some other great real estate blogs… and I can only imagine there will be at least one Phoenix blog included!
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toddwcarpenter
Congrats Dustin. I saw your twitter yesterday morning and had to laugh. Great that it all came together.
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Athol Kay
Wow, that’s some heady list to be included in with. I appreciate it!
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Mike Farmer
Congratulations!
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TimJ
Congratulations on surviving your first event. You’re off to a great start! (except for the little mudslide and traffic thing).
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Doug Willis
I was one of the attendees yesterday. Jim and Dustin provided a wonderful presentation and experience. If you are thinking of blogging, you must go. Seeing Dustin is like, well, “having Moses personally escort you on the arc”.
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Dustin
Thanks to everyone!
And a special thanks to Doug! I’m planning to send all the attendees an email with a link to this post, but I hadn’t made it that far yet, so it is awesome that you followed up already! I just played on your site a bit and noticed that your site looks pretty darn good and includes a great cast of contributors. You’re already ahead of the game!
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Richard Dale-Mesaros
Hi Dustin,
Glad to see you’re getting out there and enlightening the world about the new social networking. Things are moving at such a fast pace in this arena and we appreciate folks like you who are keeping us in the loop. 2008 is certainly going to be the year of the niche social network, as we’ve already been seeing with our own site for real estate investors.
Keep up the good work!
Richard
Chief Deal Weaver
http://www.BlackWidowNetwork.com -
Dustin
Athol,
I used one of your Bad MLS photos posts to talk about the benefits of using humor… and the slide alone was effective. Everyone had a good chuckle! So credit goes to you for creating a fun resource for us all!
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pasadenaviews
Dustin, this class was everything I hoped for and more. As always, you did a tremendous job making sense of Web2.0. Jim’s presentation on what a website should have and the ROI gave me a lot to think of. I have a slew of next steps to incorporate. Keep up the great work and I look forward to more classes. THANKS to you both!
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Jim Marks
Dustin,
You are superman… Good job getting this post and all the links up… It is Saturday morning and I am just getting my feet back under me… with a weekend in Vail… I thought I would check your blog to get the news!
I gotta admit that the Mudslide was the first time I have ever seen you sweat! but we worked it out!
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monikamcgillicuddy
Sounds like it all worked out in the end. I wish I could have been there to see you guys in action.
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Marlene Bridges
Dustin – What an awesome day of mind expansion. You and Jim were fully prepared. You gave us so much information in the morning that I was on the edge of my seat taking notes as quickly as I could. When it was time to break for lunch I was shocked that so much time had passed. Then after lunch you guys packed in even more.
Dustin, you demystified, clarified, and confirmed things I knew, things I thought I knew, and things I’d wondered about. In today’s market, we simply don’t have money to burn. I absolutely thought my money for the day was well-spent. You valued our time and there was no “dead air”. You and Jim did such an incredible job. BTW – I drove three hours to get to there (enjoyed the scenery on the 405 and saw things I usually sail by-the mudslide affected the freeway, too) and I’d do it again in a heartbeat to hear what you have to say.
Thanks also to the great sponsors. Events like this one simply can’t happen without sponsors. Thank you for carefully choosing relevent sponsors for this event. I can’t wait to get my Altos Research up and running on all my websites!
Looking forward to the next 90 days of learning and to future events like this one to build up my Web 2.0 muscles.
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Dustin
Irina, Monika and Marlene: Thank you so much for the kind words about the presentation! Everyone at the event was wonderful, inquisitive, attentive and understanding. A perfect audience!
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Naia
Dustin and Jim: As an attendee who showed up a few minutes late (15-30?), I can tell you that by the time I showed up, you were handling it all well, and I had no sense of crisis.
To all future attendees: The workshop was well worth it! Balanced and useful across a variety of speakers: Dustin, Jim, and the 5 minute presentations by the three sponsors.
Dustin and Jim, I was thinking that you were served well by your experience at tracking communication across communities. I think it made your planning for this event strong because the parts of the live event LINKED together well—even while each participant was able to keep their identity and provide their own expertise. That’s a hard thing to do well in live events, and you succeeded.
Naia
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Naia
Oh, yes. …btw, count me in for the 90day expansion of your training.
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Dustin
You’re on Naia! And thanks so much.
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Missy Caulk
Sounds like fun, mudslides, car pile ups and all, but no coffee, I draw the line there.
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Ubertor
Congrats Dustin. Sounds like a great event.
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Laura-LosAngelesRealEstateTalk.com
Wow! It seems like the event was a huge success. What is the 90-day expansion training? Is it only available to people who attended this first event?
Cheers to new adventures! -
Dustin
Laura,
The event was definitely a lot of fun.
In terms of the 90-day course, it is an idea that I shared with the first attendees and it involves me walking them through social networking and blogging over a 90-day time period. And, yes, I did offer it free to all attendees…
Once I get the system down, the plan is to open the course up to anyone who is interested (most probably for a fee).
Dustin
With Ardell, don’t expect to…
…get the usual web2.0 definition. Think: Consumers.
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ARDELL
To be fair, all are thinking consumers. Some are thinking consumers with a big net in their hand, like wading at the waters edge waiting for a fish to come close enough. But thinking of them, they are.
Most would not agree that it is inappropriate to capture their email address when they comment on the blog, and go after them in that manner. But that’s a whole nuther topic that I wouldn’t expect more than 5% to “get” let alone 20%.
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Dustin
Ardell: I think the difference is that your definition of web2.0 focuses on consumer engagement whereas most people focus on the technology. In my presentations I tend to use a very similar logic when explaining web2.0 to agents, so it is a lot of fun to read your version!
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ARDELL
Well, you know, “Ardell in Ardell’s World” again.
Dustin
Going way back before I took my job at…
…Move, I landed a 30-minute meeting with Dan Rosensweig (COO of Yahoo at the time), where I tried to convince him that I should lead up a team for Yahoo to build a platform that would help real estate professionals market themselves at a local level using the various tools Yahoo had in-house (at the time, it was something like Yahoo 360, Flickr, upcoming, local business reviews, maps, listings, etc.).
Dan’s strongest argument against such a platform was that I should prove out the concept first by doing it myself since almost all of these platforms had APIs (and theoretically, he was right, but I was looking for a regular paycheck!).
Anyway, I only remembered this story after reading Joel’s post about Seth Godin’s new product: SquidZipper.
Even two years after my call with Dan, the market for providing a free, quality, and local marketing platform for agents is still largely undeveloped… and while one of the real estate focused verticals like Trulia or Zillow could theoretically fill this niche, it still seems like such a no brainer for one of the big guys like Google, Microsoft or Yahoo to take a page from Seth’s playbook and create a niche-specific platform for their various tools!
Seth’s platform is a great idea… but it is still missing the one thing that could really make a platform like this work: an abundance of consumers!
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Ben Martin, Va Assn of REALTORS
So true. I’ve never understood the appeal of Squidoo, and obviously I’m not the only one. For hyperlocal content, blogging still seems like the way to go.
tracytc
From where I sit, Seth has his finger on the exact pulse of consumers and how they behave. They’re going to sit down at a search engine to look for their hyper-local information, and guess what is going to come up? My hyper-local, hyper-focused SquidZipper page, especially because it will link to my hyper-local blog and my hyper-local Squidoo Lens, all of which will point back to my hyper-local SquidZipper page.
Oops! Now that I let the cat out of the bag, I’d better actually head over and set it up. =-D
Paul 8:26 pm on February 22, 2010 Permalink |
I’ll answer this from the perspective of a real estate investor. I bring my golden goose realtor plenty of deals as an investor. From buying to selling and learning to market properties on my own, I firmly believe that my realtor closes more properties each year through me alone, than through all of his other clients.